The Neurodivergent DVM

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The Neurodivergent DVM Neurodivergency (i.e. autism, ADHD, dyslexia) is likely common in the veterinary community, but resources to support us are rare.

We hope to develop a community that can provide support and share tools for making us more successful in our careers.

14/06/2022

Exciting news! VIN has started a Vets4Vets support group for neurodivergent vets. You need not be a VIN member to join. Email [email protected] to get added :)

"NeuroDivergentVets

NeuroDivergentVets is a support group created for veterinarians whose brains function in ways that may be dissimilar to the general population. Our Neurodiverse group works with the awareness that it's normal and acceptable for people to have brains that function differently from one another. Rather than thinking there is something wrong or problematic when some people don't operate similarly to others, neurodiversity embraces all differences. The concept of neurodivergence, or neurodiversity, recognizes that both brain function and behavioral traits are simply indicators of how diverse our human population is.

This highly confidential support group is free to any veterinarian, living and working with brain functions, behaviors, and processing that are not considered standard or typical.

NeuroDivergentVets provides a safe place for veterinarians to support each other, to share and develop personal and interpersonal skills and habits that enable greater growth and function at work and at home. This program is not a substitute for proper medical care and psychotherapy, it is a forum for colleagues supporting colleagues.

This VIN Foundation program is made possible through individual donors from people like you. You may have heard about this Vets4Vets program because you're a member of VIN, but this supportive outreach is also available to every veterinarian, in any stage of their career, anywhere in the world.

The only requirement that we have for membership in the NeuroDivergentVets support group is that, upon joining, you make an introductory post in the "Introductions" folder, announcing your arrival/presence and describing your situation.

If you would like to learn more about the (many awesome!) programs offered by Vets4Vets and the VINFoundation, or you'd like to help us by making a donation to help us do this good work, please visit our page at VINFoundation.org."

02/05/2022

I’m way behind in posting but wanted to congratulate you all for making it through April (autism awareness/acceptance month). Well done. Now we get to spend the rest of the year being autistic without anyone being aware of us 😆

Phew. Do yourself a favor and go buy this book.
10/04/2022

Phew. Do yourself a favor and go buy this book.

“Communication with the doctor was difficult.”The kind of client review that makes my heart sink. Because yeah, I know i...
06/04/2022

“Communication with the doctor was difficult.”

The kind of client review that makes my heart sink. Because yeah, I know it is.

I wish you understood how it felt from my side of the table. I want so badly to be able to chit chat while I palpate your cat’s belly, to absorb what you are saying while I examine eyes/ears/teeth, to successfully hold in my head the things you tell me long enough to write them down after I’ve completed the exam.

What I would love would be a quiet space dedicated to my exam, without any staff expecting me to describe or teach or make the type of conversation that makes neurotypical people feel comfortable. I would love clients to not conflate banter with caring. I would love to dedicate my brain to one task at a time, but of course this profession is all about multitasking.

It’s not that I can’t communicate. It’s that the type of communication that makes people feel comfortable is not the type of communication I am capable of in the exam room without an extensive amount of energy. And if your kitty is very sick and I am going through my differentials, next steps, and how to explain all of that in my head, I might not be able to hold the things you are telling me inside my head at the same time.

And I know that clients need to understand what I am doing if they are going to trust me. But if I have to choose between focusing on the doctoring vs focusing on communicating in a way that feels most comfortable for you, I am going to choose the doctoring every time. And I can usually tell when that is going to result in a negative review later. I wonder what it’s like to get through an appointment without running the cost/benefit analysis of whether it’s worth it to drag your brain into chit chat about the client’s vacation vs keeping attention on the patient.

“Communication with the doctor was difficult.”

Yep. I know. I wish I could do it differently.

Photo credit: Flickr user Alex Lampe, Creative Commons

[Image description: A white kitten with grey ears and a grey tail lays curled into a ball on top of a grey blanket. He is peeking out of one eye and the other eye is closed.]

It's a both/and kind of thing.
15/03/2022

It's a both/and kind of thing.

on Twitter

One of the pros of curbside service: being able to freely doodle while listening to clients talk. Doodling helps me focu...
21/02/2022

One of the pros of curbside service: being able to freely doodle while listening to clients talk. Doodling helps me focus on what they are saying, but if anyone were to catch me doodling while I'm supposed to be listening, it looks like I'm zoned out and not hearing anything. If only they knew how much it helps!

Anyone else have scraps of paper with doodles all over your desk?

[Image description: A close-up image shows a black pencil with its point facing the camera. The pencil is laying on top of a piece of paper with several swirly doodles drawn on it.]

Image credit: Flickr user RCabanilla

I love this from ADHD Nutritionist. Someone must be able to make one for the vet clinic… “leaving the diff quick stains ...
10/02/2022

I love this from ADHD Nutritionist. Someone must be able to make one for the vet clinic… “leaving the diff quick stains out and open”, “cabinet full of samples in formalin from the past ten years”, “stethoscope left hanging on the washing machine for some reason”…

If you have a DVM/VMD, or a CVT/LVT, and if you are autistic/ADHD, odds are at some point someone has told you, "Well, c...
07/02/2022

If you have a DVM/VMD, or a CVT/LVT, and if you are autistic/ADHD, odds are at some point someone has told you, "Well, clearly you are high-functioning!" Perhaps you have been told that you shouldn't pursue a formal diagnosis because you've made it this far in life without one, so what does it matter? Or perhaps someone has patted you on the back and told you what an inspiration you are to have overcome your autism in order to become a successful professional.

This article does a good job explaining why functioning labels (high-functioning/low-functioning) or describing neurodiversity in terms of degrees of severity don't do anyone any good. Individuals who have more visible disabilities may be more likely to receive supports, but also more likely to be seen as less competent, less capable, and too often even less human. Those with less visible disabilities can have their support needs overlooked or taken less seriously, because they've managed to get by without supports in the past (never mind the invisible struggles they've faced getting by without any accommodations).

If you are a neurodivergent veterinary professional (whether self-diagnosed or clinically diagnosed), consider this your carte blanche to punch people in the face when they say you aren't *really* [insert neurodivergence here] simply because you have a degree, a family, a fancy title, or bring home a good paycheck. Your struggles are real, they matter, and you deserve to seek whatever accommodations you might need to make your day even 5% easier. You are worth it.

The Lancet’s proposal to create a new label of “profound autism” serves only to distract us from the work of ensuring that all autistic people have everything they need to thrive.

This is an amazing series from .rvn (https://instagram.com/animell.rvn) about veterinary-specific challenges faced by au...
26/01/2022

This is an amazing series from .rvn (https://instagram.com/animell.rvn) about veterinary-specific challenges faced by autistic folx. Does any of this resonate with you?

I sought some support in a random FB group for neurodivergent folx with regards to learning techniques for connecting wi...
15/01/2022

I sought some support in a random FB group for neurodivergent folx with regards to learning techniques for connecting with clients. It's hard for me to examine, develop a treatment plan and differential list, chart, communicate to my staff what to do, AND converse with the client all within a 10 minute period. I know some clients see me as a little cold or awkward and asked if anyone had found tools that help to build rapport/trust with clients that felt authentic. I got responses like "My pet's vet hardly spoke to me and I don't think they should be a vet at all if they can't be warm and personable," "Find a job within veterinary medicine that doesn't require client interaction," and "offload all the client communication to your technician."

I refuse to believe that we cannot be excellent veterinarians AND neurodivergent. I am also a little miffed at being told within a ND-friendly online community that I simply shouldn't be a GP because client communication is challenging for me. We CAN do this, and do it well, but probably need some tools or accommodations.

What have you found helpful that allows you to be your authentic self while also giving clients the communication they need to build trust?

[Image description: A brown tabby kitten is looking at the camera with a grimace on his face. His left eye is squinting and his right eye is closed, and his mouth is open showing his canine teeth.]

Photo credit: "Angry Cat" by Flickr user zhouxuan12345678

I guess my posts here won't be as regular as I'd like them to be... Not too unusual for me to be gung-ho about a new pro...
11/11/2021

I guess my posts here won't be as regular as I'd like them to be... Not too unusual for me to be gung-ho about a new project and then struggle to maintain it. But, I continue to watch for any resources that I think might be helpful to others in this community. This one resonated with me... Maybe it does for you too?










13/10/2021

Do you ever climb into a kennel with a post-op patient to “help them recover” when you want to escape from the noise or chaos of the treatment room, exams, phones, and everything else? I’m glad we have such a perfect excuse for a sensory break.

For my fellow (hopefully recovering?) perfectionists.
25/09/2021

For my fellow (hopefully recovering?) perfectionists.

22/09/2021

Some thoughts on fear-free handling and techniques: does anyone else struggle to explain to staff how what they are doing is not fear free because, while you can FEEL how their restraint/handling is anxiety-inducing, you don’t specifically know why? I know the jist of fear-free (slippery surfaces are scary, being able to see other pets is scary, etc), but I’m talking about the more subtle things. Talking in a high pitched voice. Repeating “Youreokayyoureokayyoureokayyoureokay”. Sneeeeaking a muzzle towards a dog and then WHIPPING it on superfast. These things make me cringe inside (and sometimes outside).

I like that I can intrinsically sense how pets do/don’t like to be handled. I wish it were easier for me to explain to staff how I can tell, because it definitely isn’t intuitive (for what it’s worth, I can’t read horses for s**t. They always look furious to me.).

Anyone else?

18/09/2021

Moments that give me immense pleasure in my work day: when my intradermal sutures close up my incision so well that you can hardly tell where it is.

What's yours??

🙋‍♀️
12/09/2021

🙋‍♀️

This isn’t veterinary related specifically, but worth a listen on your Sunday afternoon: on why gendering the various pr...
12/09/2021

This isn’t veterinary related specifically, but worth a listen on your Sunday afternoon: on why gendering the various presentations of neurodiversity isn’t helpful.

‎Show Neurodivergent Narratives Podcast, Ep On Gendering Neurodivergent Presentations - Aug 11, 2021

"Masking" or "camouflaging" is the idea that neurodivergent people often put on a false persona in order to fit into the...
12/09/2021

"Masking" or "camouflaging" is the idea that neurodivergent people often put on a false persona in order to fit into the world around us. While it's helpful from the perspective that we are social creatures who need to be able to interact with other people effectively in order to communicate our needs, wants, or ideas, it's exhausting. Take, for example, my thought process throughout a typical veterinary exam. I have to consciously think "remember to make eye contact," "remember to do the small talk thing before getting into the exam findings," "don't talk about your own experience with a similar thing because people don't want to hear it," etc etc etc. It makes me feel like I'm floating above the conversation rather than actively participating in it, because a good portion of my thoughts are detoured into thinking about how to talk and act rather than focusing on the conversation itself.

Masking also causes something of an imposter syndrome- I know I've caught myself standing in the middle of the treatment room with an overwhelming sense of "Nobody here actually knows who I am, and if they did, they wouldn't like that person." I know I've caused unintentional pain and upset in people when I've let myself talk without thinking. After enough experiences like that, I either shut down and don't talk at all to certain people, or I become a very distorted version of myself because I get so tangled up trying to think about everything I say before I say it- and let's face it, I suck at trying to figure out how another person is going to interpret my words. My close people, the ones who I am most myself around, know me well enough to understand my intentions even if my words don't always express my thoughts very well. Because I can be relatively unmasked, I am more myself. Ironically, it then becomes easier for me to speak overall and I'm a lot less likely to say things that I regret. It's like the lack of pressure to speak correctly makes it easier for me to express myself how I intend to.

I've heard people compare masking to speaking a second language in a foreign country. It's not that you can't do it, and many people can do it quite well. It's just one step removed from speaking in your primary language, and that extra step takes some energy. I think we all vary in how fluent we are in "neurotypical". I'm sure it's something that we generally get better at with time and practice.

I don’t think masking is necessarily a bad thing. For many, it’s a survival mechanism. It’s how we got through middle school alive. It’s what we need to do to perform our jobs effectively. I know that on those days when I have lower resources and am less able to mask, I am less capable of connecting with my clients. I absolutely have to be able to unmask as often as I can, and am grateful for the colleagues around me who accept and appreciate my weirdo unmasked self that comes out when I can escape the floor and hide in the doctors’ office for a while.

One thing I’ve always wondered about myself is whether any part of my professional persona is truly me. I feel like I try on different phrases, styles of talking, demeanors, and even physical postures all the time. Once I find something I like, it becomes a part of my doctor self. Words are challenging for me, and when they asked us in school to “describe something in your own words”, my immediate thought was that I don’t have any of my own words. I mean, I do, but especially if I’m being asked to verbally express something using my own words, I go blank. I have words that I’ve practiced and rehearsed, or words I’ve memorized and so can repeat them, but original words to describe things? That’s really tough.

I can usually trace back specific words or ways of explaining things to the people I stole them from. When I am feeling low, this bums me out- I mean, why don’t I have an original style that I came up with on my own? But when I am feeling accepting of who I am, I think of it more like I am a mosaic of all of the best bits and pieces of the amazing veterinarians, technicians, and support staff who I’ve had the opportunity to work with and learn from. I am who I am because I’ve had lots of excellent support people around me. I hope that I honor them by incorporating their techniques and phrases into my own approach.

And that’s what is going on in my head as I stand in front of an exam room door, preparing to enter.

[Image description: A colorful tile mosaic in muted browns, white, blues, and maroons creates an image of a rooster standing on a pig, who is standing on a sheep, who is stand on a cow.]

(Photo credit: Flickr user Tim Green, posted with Creative Commons permission.)

I think I love Fear Free because I wish my doctor or dentist would approach me like an FAS 4 kitty.
10/09/2021

I think I love Fear Free because I wish my doctor or dentist would approach me like an FAS 4 kitty.

Exploring Challenges: Meeting Clients and Good First ImpressionsAs I become more comfortable with how autism affects how...
09/09/2021

Exploring Challenges: Meeting Clients and Good First Impressions

As I become more comfortable with how autism affects how I show up at work, I am more cognizant of the things I do that really wear me out. Meeting new people is always a challenge, but in a professional setting, it’s a balance of meeting them, trying to figure out what they are all about, and also trying to build trust. Trust is the foundation of a good client/patient/veterinary relationship.

The challenge is that neurotypical people often need some small talk or get-to-know-you conversation before getting down to the business of why they’ve brought their pet in. Not always- some clients don’t mind cutting to the chase- but usually there needs to be at least a little of that. I’ve had ten years of practicing how to do this type of conversation that doesn’t come naturally to me, which is enough to at least go beyond questions about the weather. But I find myself wondering if the amount of energy I put into this ultimately takes away from what I can then do for the pet as a doctor. I imagine a see-saw with small talk on one end and doctoring on the other, and some clients totally suck my soul with small talk which then leaves me drained. I can usually handle it early in the day. It’s the late afternoon appointments, after having had to manage a few really sick inpatients or deal with a lot of phone calls, that I really struggle with maintaining that level of non-medical conversation.

I suspect that I have masked heavily while at work for my entire career. Learning to build trust with clients is a skill we all have to learn as veterinarians, but the amount of effort it requires me to create small talk is sometimes astronomical. I am starting to acknowledge that, if I want to be able to stay in this career as a general practitioner long-term, I probably need to figure out ways to mask less (at least insofar as I can while still being able to be professional, courteous, and thorough with my clients and patients). How much is it my responsibility to continue to mask for the sake of trust-building, and how much is it a client’s responsibility to decide to trust me as I am authentically- or, if they need more of a warm, hand-holding, conversational person, to seek the care of a different doctor? I don't want to have terrible bedside manner. I also would love to be less exhausted at the end of the day. Help!

Photo from Flickr user OakleyOriginals, Creative Commons license.

[Image description: A black labrador with a small amount of grey on her muzzle is sitting in the grass and wearing a large Elizabethan collar. She is looking directly at the camera with a soft expression.]

Happy Labor Day! I hope everyone is enjoying a restful day off. If you are among the emergency clinicians holding down t...
06/09/2021

Happy Labor Day! I hope everyone is enjoying a restful day off. If you are among the emergency clinicians holding down the fort today, my endless gratitude and I hope you’ll get some rest soon too!

I was reviewing my post from a couple of days ago and caught myself thinking, “All of us struggle with things like finishing our records or talking to confrontational clients. Why do I consider these difficulties that I have due to autism?”

Yo Samdy Sam (whose YouTube channel is an excellent binge watch if you think you might want to learn more about autism) has a good video about the difference between experiencing something as a human trait vs experiencing it as an autistic trait. Give it a watch if you’d like a way better explanation than I can provide!

To check out KiwiCo, please visit http://www.kiwico.com/YoSamdySam/ for 50% off your first crate.We hear a lot about examples of autistic traits, sometimes s...

As I alluded to in my first post, I feared that I was going to be one of those veterinarians that everyone talks dispara...
05/09/2021

As I alluded to in my first post, I feared that I was going to be one of those veterinarians that everyone talks disparagingly about- the ones who make conversation with the pets rather than their owners, or the ones who wished that pets could walk into the clinic on their own and pay their bills themselves. But in all honesty, that’s not true. I don’t hate people at all, and I think I’ve got decent bedside manner. I did interview horribly (I cried immediately after both of the behavioral interviews I participated in because I knew how badly they went) because, at least when I was in my early 20’s, I had no idea how to not blank out when faced with a high-stress, high-stakes, one-on-one conversation with someone I’d never met before.

Although to be fair, I still interview horribly, but now I know to tell people that it takes me some time to find my feet when I’m surrounded by new people and new places.

I haven’t always known that I’m autistic. Actually, I technically don’t even know I am right now- I’m self diagnosed (or “on the suspectrum”, haha)- but the more I learn, the more I make sense to myself, and the more I understand why some things have been a struggle for my entire life. I’d reached a point where I could accept that I would never be good at certain tasks, but still felt like if I could just try harder or really apply myself, I might still manage to be better someday. I’ve been angry with myself forever because while I could manage to be intelligent enough to pass veterinary boards (despite having absolutely no interest in cows or pigs), I somehow couldn’t manage to keep my study spaces tidy, or make appointments on time, or have an easy, natural conversation on the phone. I considered myself lazy, fundamentally broken, or bad at life, which is a perspective that makes it awfully hard to practice any sort of self compassion.

I’m interested in exploring the intersection of neurodiversity and veterinary medicine because I think this field really plays to our strengths while also forcing us to find ways to confront the things that challenge us. Autism gives me just as many advantages as it does difficulties. For me, here’s what I find I really excel at and the things I hope to figure out how to improve at:

Strengths:
-I’m excellent at reading animal body language. I practiced fear free handling well before there was an official term for it.

-I’m always willing to dig deep into research on a patient’s behalf.

-I have very high ethical standards.

-I’m a rockstar surgeon and I have been told that I’m also very bold, willing to perform surgeries that others shy away from because I have a lot of trust in my surgical skills.

-I am endlessly interested in vet med (I love that my job is my special interest, and my enthusiasm for it hasn’t waned since I was in vet school!). This is sometimes also a weakness, because as neurodivergent people know, your special interest can take up your attention at the cost of other things that you could/should be giving your energy to. Sometimes it looks like I’m a workaholic.

-I am excellent at maintaining a nonjudgemental approach to clients, because it is extremely easy for me to empathize with their situation (even if I have to make up a hypothetical situation in my head).

Weaknesses:
- I suck at charting. I cannot for the life of me figure out a way to consistently, efficiently chart. Charting sucks my soul. I can choose to devote my energy to client interaction or to charting efficiently, and client interaction pretty much always wins. And then I’m left charting after hours or on weekends, or just not getting it done at all (ugh, I KNOW I KNOW).

-I get progressively less tolerant of questions (from clients, staff, colleagues, etc) throughout the day, until I reach a point where I have to stifle a cringe every time I hear footsteps approaching the office.

-I have to mask to interact well with clients, and I think sometimes clients can tell. I’ve been called inauthentic, told that I talked about irrelevant subjects during the exam, and told that I’m cold. And sometimes clients see me once and then don’t want to schedule with me anymore. I can tell when an interaction is going south, which throws me off and makes it harder to mask at all, and then my autism slips out (oops) which can make me sound unsure of myself or not very affable. Masking is also extremely exhausting. I’ve always been envious of people who can walk into an exam room with a stranger and strike up a conversation like they’ve known each other for years. That will never be me.

-I sometimes struggle to comprehend how or why someone could behave in an unethical manner. My endless optimism can make me blind to someone trying to take advantage of me, which happens more often that I care to admit.

-Engaging with my staff is tough. Small talk is very unnatural and tiring to me, but I know that it is a foundation on which relationships are built. But when I’m trying to put energy into my interactions with clients and patients, sometimes there’s nothing left to put into those conversations with my staff and colleagues. I can do it, but it requires intentional effort, and I’m usually not listening to responses well because I am focusing really hard on deciding whether I’m asking the right sorts of questions.

-Existing in a small office with other doctors is hard. Misophonia (extreme emotions induced by sounds, especially sounds associated with eating) is a real struggle, and since we all pretty much eat where we are working, it means trying not to murder my colleagues every lunch hour. I used to feel a lot of shame around this, but now I accept that it’s not something I’m in control of, and I just put on headphones or leave if possible.

-Phone calls are the worst. I cannot figure out the pace of a phone call, when it’s my turn to talk, or how to show the other person that I’m actively listening to them. I have to write down what I need to say prior to the call, and if I get off track, I don’t know how to redirect the conversation. Sometimes I say things that are simply untrue because my mind blanks out and I end up reaching for what I think the client might want me to say?! It sucks a lot and is the reason I much prefer to email rather than call a client.

So, this is me. I don’t know if any of this resonates with other veterinarians, but if it does, have you found ways to play to your strengths or work around your weaknesses?

[Image description: A green box on top of a background of a plant with yellow leaves and red stems contains black text that reads "Neurodivergency comes with strengths and challenges. How do you excel? Where do you struggle?" An icon of a sleeping dog is below the text.]

02/09/2021

When I applied for vet school, I was one of the first classes that had to go through the process of a behavioral-style interview. The rationale for these, we were told, was that veterinary medicine was full of people who were good with animals but didn't know how to talk to people. The behavioral interview, with questions like "Tell us about a time you overcame adversity" or "Tell us about a situation where you had to be innovative" was supposed to ensure that the students entering vet school were capable of "people-ing". I remember thinking, "Oh f**k, they are trying to w**d out people like me."

So, this project is dedicated to anyone in vet med who identifies as neurodivergent- be that self-diagnosed, officially diagnosed, or undiagnosed-but-curious. Let's explore how we make our profession better for both animals and people while we also work to figure out to we can make this profession work better for us too. Welcome!

31/08/2021

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