Mountain Mist Maremmas

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Mountain Mist Maremmas Breeders of Maremma livestock guardian dogs in Manitoba, Canada. We follow the ethical breeding practices as outlined by the Maremma Sheepdog Club of America.

21/08/2024

Ivan

In with the oldest batch of ewes and lambs full time for the last month and doing great.

21/08/2024

Arwyn.

No clear signs yet whether or not this litter is happening. At just three (ish) weeks we don’t really expect anything yet. In another week or two we’ll start looking for more signs. Arwyn has a more solid build than some of our other females which can contribute to difficulty determining physical changes during pregnancy. Fingers crossed!

21/08/2024

Chiara part 2.

This lady has an unfortunate love of laying in mud puddles. This year that meant matting all along her stomach that required painstaking, careful removal with scissors. This was uncomfortable for Chiara to sit through, but she did with lots of treats on two visits (I lost the light the first time and it was too risky to continue) and she was able to feel immediate relief as the matting came off. She tolerated it like a champ for a dog raised mostly hands off. I finished off her tummy today and had turned away to grab something so I could do some work on her tail……and when I turned back she was literally running away from me.

It’s important to give the independant working dogs the opportunity to say when they are done. They don’t normally show it quite this clearly, but I definitely received the message!

Another important thing is to allow for interruptions. When grooming Ivan later the other dogs set up an alarm bark which I could tell he want to check out. I had him on a lead at the time to ensure he stayed near by while I worked on his feet, so I unclipped the lead just in time for him to lunge away at speed. And because he had the freedom to leave when he needed to, no argument or fight on the lead, he came right back after determining the all clear so we could continue.

21/08/2024

Chiara part 1

I had a lovely blurb typed out that deleted itself. It was windy today and Chiara did not hear me coming.

Basically, don’t wake up a working guardian dog by touching them, leaning over them, or sticking your head in their house. They can come off the ground fast, sometimes in barking or snapping mode. Save yourself and your dog any accidental injury and instead call to them from a few body lengths away where they can see you fully. This gives them time and visual enough to recognize you.

Chiara is in a pen of new lambs and ewes. One of the rams apparently did no work this year. The back up ram caught the problem but it did delay this group lambing by several weeks behind the rest.

Some pictures from today. Out at the sheep farm doing some grooming. Videos of a few dogs to follow. Of the five dogs th...
21/08/2024

Some pictures from today. Out at the sheep farm doing some grooming. Videos of a few dogs to follow.

Of the five dogs that had some grooming done today, all but one were found sound asleep, which is perfectly normal on a sunny day in the early afternoon. Some folks think because their dog sleeps so much during the day they are lazy - and some are! - but mostly they are up and active in the cooler parts of the day and so most of their guarding overnight. But I do recommend waking by voice them from a distance as they can come off the ground fast when startled!

One of our young females (1.5 years) from the last Chiara and Niko litter is currently looking for a new home down in th...
20/08/2024

One of our young females (1.5 years) from the last Chiara and Niko litter is currently looking for a new home down in the USA. Their family has made some lifestyle changes and will no longer have enough livestock to keep all their dogs occupied. Freya had early exposure to sheep, goats, and chickens. Her mother is by far our best guardian.

If this is of interest to anyone, or you have questions about her current exposures and training, please contact White Star Acres.

With the new restrictions in place on moving dogs across the Canada/US border, this is certainly a much easier way to get one of our dogs.

06/08/2024

A misty evening yesterday.

As shown we’ve had Vito and Arwyn together the last few weeks for another attempt at a final litter with this pair after Arwyn did not catch early Jan 2024. Fingers crossed! Arwyn will head back to the big sheep farm soon. We won’t be able to confirm pups are on the way until early September, with a litter hypothetically due the last weekend of September 2024.

Vito will be staying on here for now. He spent the last two years on a goat farm, however the family sold their animals and moved out of province this summer. As we are no longer planning to use Vito for further breeding we will be looking into placement options for him. Although he’s retiring from the program he still has working years left. He and Tali were a working pair for many years and have been enjoying being back together.

Everyone was a little damp from the rain, but the white fur was back on display the next morning.

01/07/2024

Beware of barking!

Putting visually sensitive dogs in the path of fireworks - not recommended. Fireworks are difficult because visual guardians don’t like to let the bad thing out of sight, so they often won’t retreat into a building until completely overwhelmed. The sound alone is usually fairly quickly accepted when not accompanied by anything else.

Last year one dog hit overwhelm quickly and was trying to go under or over fences, which is why I planned my day on being available to the dogs when the fireworks hit (even had my window open so I wouldn’t miss the start if my timing was off), every pen had a shelter or barn option to retreat, and I chose to leave the electric fence on to remind any panic-influenced dog not to touch the fence. Although escape would be accidental under these circumstances, the dog would still learn how to get out and would repeat that behaviour the next time they were scared, so we want to avoid that scenario completely.

On the plus side, the fireworks only lasted 15 minutes, and by the end we were down to just one dog barking intermittently. Tali and Vito had tucked themselves right in the hut with the sheep. Sumo switched between hanging out in sight quietly or running off to bark at the fence. Enzo managed to find what he deemed the safest place to watch/bark from. Once he sat down I positioned myself between him and the fireworks and very quickly he settled to watch in silence.

Afterwords everyone got a good cuddle, but I can tell from the house they are still not settled half an hour later due to all the abnormal late night traffic and town dogs barking in the distance.

We got to interact with some new lambs today but no births in the several hours of watching. Sky had fun being off the l...
23/06/2024

We got to interact with some new lambs today but no births in the several hours of watching. Sky had fun being off the lead (with supervision in case of any arrivals) and Chiara made sure to watch the new lambs, coming to sit by them for several minutes after Sky had said hi.

23/06/2024

Sky trying to sneak a snack.

23/06/2024

The second close proximity birth yesterday.

Still making no attempt to draw Sky’s attention to births. In real life she will stumble across them, so other than getting her in the right area we try to let things unfold as they may. As she gains the ability to think through the situation we stop providing any precautionary “leave it” as she approaches and instead wait to see if she will automatically make good choices on her own.

In this case she showed some interest but opted to lay down at a distance and facing somewhat away, which got a verbal reward. Then when she looked back over at the situation, then away again, again we marked the break in concentration. Almost every time a dog is going to get themselves in trouble they will develop a hard focus or intent stare on something first. If the dog can be taught not to do that hard focus at all, but instead to do a quick scan then look away, it prevents a lot of unwanted behaviors from even getting started.

Very pleased with the growth she showed today.

23/06/2024

One of Sky’s close proximity births yesterday.

Sky starts off blissfully unaware, which is fine. It tells me she is not concerned about the sounds of labor and is not harassing the ewes during birth. She was actually more concerned about finding a larger patch of shade on this hot day.

Once Sky notices the lamb she definitely wanted to go investigate. She was a little too eager to approach which is why the leash slack was quickly gathered up as a precaution but she did listen to the ewe’s message to back off so no tension was actually put on the lead. The moment she first looks away she gets a verbal reward to mark the behaviour we want to see. It takes another moment to think through what she should do in this situation as she looks around, then as soon as she makes the decision to move away from the ewe and baby we give some over the top verbal praise and physical attention to help cement the right choice she made. Although treats were available Sky had decided she didn’t want what was offered so verbal and petting was all that was available. She then heads back over on her own to sit in her shady patch facing away from the pair, which again, is a great choice.

She is self rewarding here by sitting where she wants to in the shade so no reason to call her back for a reward, just reward in place with verbal praise. If I had a treat she wanted I could walk over and drop it between her feet in that case to encourage her to stay relaxed.

If you watch closely you’ll see when Sky first noticed the lamb and moved forward she checked herself twice accidentally by stepping on the lead. One of the reasons a drag line is so great in training is that most dogs learn very quickly how to walk without stepping on the line, but it does take a certain amount of brain power to be mindful of the line. If they get a little too interested in anything, they forget to mind the line and it is very common that they step on the line and pull themselves to a stop. This only applies if they are going at less than a run though. If they are going so fast the leash is flying it’s not going to do any good! This is why drag lines are a great tool, but you still need to know when and how to use it to best effect.

I want to stress that the ewe chose the most inconvenient place to give birth - a merging of multiple gates and panels - and despite being herded over on the grass once, insisted on returning to have her lamb (actually both of them) in that little patch of dirt. Pregnant ladies. They do what they want!

23/06/2024

Sky on day three of lambing training.

We had a few close proximity briths today as well as numerous “just arrived and still wet” lambs to investigate. Sky is not terribly food motivated compared to some dogs, and is suspicious of new food items. One of the things she started to grasp this day was the joys of finding afterbirth. We were working both on breaking concentration by praising her for “leave it”s, as well as encouraging her to investigate as much as she wanted anything that was not a wee or lamb, in any way that she wanted. By the following day she was actively engaged with the hunt for afterbirth and seemed to have a much better grasp that the lambs, while interesting, should not be her main goal. We do want to make sure though that she is not showing resource guarding of afterbirth to nearby ewes and lambs. Thankfully she has a tendency to daintily steal the afterbirth and walk a distance away before trying to eat it.

As a side note, umbilical cords are apparently quite chewy. Did you know chewing is a great stress reliever, self calming behaviour, and is a self-reinforcing behaviour?

There was one discovered stillbirth this day. While unfortunate, for training purposes it was good to be able to let Sky investigate and see her choose to ignore that the same as any other lamb. What was more interesting was Chiara took exception to the investigation and inserted herself between Sky and the stillborn lamb, laying down next to it to ensure nothing untoward happened. It’s very cool to watch her at work.

23/06/2024

As we are working with Sky on lambing, young Ivan is getting a crash course on mums and babies. Last summer he was penned next to the bottle babies with several visits to them, as well as sharing a fence line with a few mums with lambs.

Per our usual protocol with exposure, he has been calm through the fence, and stationary at the gate. He was allowed to wander on a line with Dana holding it for 10 minutes. With no concerning behaviours seen we progressed to 10 minutes of wandering with the line dragging and Dana following closely enough to step on the line if needed, then 10 minutes of wandering with the line line dragging but supervision from farther back. He did marvelous all around. Polite with mums and babies. Great greeting with Arwyn (the one in the video is the second time they met up on this visit).

So although we are following our exposure protocol, Ivan powered through a number of steps all in one setting. This is common with older dogs that have a strong basis. I still recommend going through the steps so the dog can have quick feedback if needed and so you can build confidence through watching that the dog will act appropriately in different situations.

Arwyn was contained for this visit just for safety as two dogs together is both distracting and a potential for conflict. We discovered the next day that Arwyn could care less about Ivan visiting and she was left loose for future visits.

22/06/2024

Wow it’s been a while, we should post something!

The comments during the video say the important parts. Due to a busy spring last year we weren’t able to dedicate time to train Sky for lambing. One surprise birthing in her pen went well. This year we had two early arrival births and saw some unwanted behaviours - guarding lambs from mom, being overly inquisitive, not wanting to share her new (really awesome tasting) friends with anyone, and in one case stealing what we believe was a stillborn lamb (early quadruplets with only one viable). We don’t blame Sky for any of these otherwise normal dog behaviours (when left to their own devices), but we do want to set her up for success going forward.

Sky was moved out of the lambing area for now. The day prior to this video she had short leash supervision with Blaine. This video is long leash supervision with Dana. You can see Sky was frustrated with the taut leash but also that she clearly picked up on the fact she showed an unwanted behaviour. We need to give dogs the opportunity to (safely) make mistakes so we can show them what we do and don’t want.

18/04/2024

When you forget you have livestock guardian dogs who notice anything out of place and build a snowman in the barn yard while they are not looking. This might be the shortest lived snowman of my entire life.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: almost all dog on dog incidents are human caused. Thankfully we did not have ...
26/03/2024

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: almost all dog on dog incidents are human caused. Thankfully we did not have an such an incident today but we were very close!

A side effect of breeding livestock guardian dogs for generations to guard things is they have a higher rate of resource guarding than some other dogs. This is most often an issue when food is involved. As a growing youngster Sumo has always been highly food motivated, another risk factor for resource guarding of food. We generally manage this easily by making sure dogs have protected feeding time or making feeding stations the sheep can’t get at, and by putting multiple out of line of sight feeding spots in pens with multiple dogs. Young Sumo knows I will stand there and protect his food from the goats for him if needed (usually not needed as I grain them at the same time he gets his meals). Over the last several months his tolerance for other creatures moving near him while he eats has greatly improved. The house dog, Sadie, is often able to be directly outside the fence while he eats without problems. See this evenings photo for how close they often are without issue.

This morning our near incident arose when Dana went through the gate into the goat pen, trusting the magnet to hold the gate closed for the 30 seconds needed in pen, but not actually latching the gate. Naturally one of the goats chose that time to butt the gate open, Sadie opted to say hi to her friends the goat and Sumo, and Sadie took that as an open invitation to hop in and start eating from Sumo’s bowl - cue Dana rushing across the pen saying good dogs and leave it’s (and maybe cursing the goat). Sumo was luckily so flabbergasted by the audacity of Sadie that he wasn’t sure what to do, standing there watching with his head cocked sideways. Thankfully in the last two days Sumo has finally levelled off on his growth spurt and decided he’s not nearly as hungry as normal, as evidenced by him trying to bury his food before eating it.

Sadie was quickly evicted, the gate latched, and Sumo received all the treats and pets for his wonderful reaction. Sadie has no idea how lucky she is for his good humour. But had there been an incident, it would have been human error - choosing not to latch the gate - that let it happen.

Well, we were planning to be announcing a litter arrival about now, but it turns out there isn’t one to announce. Arwyn ...
23/03/2024

Well, we were planning to be announcing a litter arrival about now, but it turns out there isn’t one to announce.

Arwyn has always been known for going longer before delivery than we expect, but this time we also were not seeing some of the body changes we expect as the due date nears - changes in hair, mobility, activity, size, puppy motion, etc. The majority of these changes happen in the last 3 weeks as this is when the puppies really start to gain size. As we had a firm start date we were pretty confident on a due date and brought Arwyn in two weeks ahead. After watching her for a weekend we ultimately decided to take her for an ultrasound to see if she was not as far as expected, having a small litter, or not pregnant at all. Naturally the ultrasound was broken and we ended up getting an X-ray that did not show any visible puppies or other signs of pregnancy which would normally be visible after 45 days of pregnancy.

This is a first for us, though not unheard of. We did choose to keep Arwyn under close observation on the off chance (practically a nonexistent chance) a small litter was missed on the scan. She continues to show no signs of late stage pregnancy, rather just trying to convince us she wants to go back to the farm.

We’ll continue to work with our two young fellows in training and plan for Arwyn’s next heat in a few months.

Last week was also a challenging week because the day before we found out there would be no puppies, we said goodbye to our family dog Annie. A spoiled house dog through and through, with zero inclination for guarding, Annie was the first driving force behind why we wanted basic health testing on our guarding dogs. At four she began to limp and was diagnosed with bilateral severe hip dysplasia. That means she was born with hip sockets that didn’t exist and her ability to move relied solely on the muscles around the hip joint remaining strong, but every step she took increased the arthritis in the joint. The only chance of repair is costly surgery, and it has a strong genetic link. And so all our dogs are OFA or PennHip tested before breeding as we do our best to ensure we never contribute to another dog being in discomfort all their days. Annie, with slowing pace and an increase in pain medication over the years, went on her daily walks right up to her last day.

A little off topic from our guardians, but this Dog Behaviour Conference is coming up in April and I highly recommend it...
05/03/2024

A little off topic from our guardians, but this Dog Behaviour Conference is coming up in April and I highly recommend it for anyone who dabbles in dog training. It is geared mostly towards pets but has a great deal of information and ideas that can roll over to our guardian dogs. The conference can be attended online. This year will be my third. Speakers and topics shown below.

-Dana

https://www.vsdogtrainingacademy.com/dog-behavior-conference/

04/03/2024

Part 2 of 2. Storm thief.

Reminder that you don’t get to be mad for your dog exploring (and possibly causing havoc) when unsupervised if you are the one who gave them access to the new area unsupervised. We also never punish or redirect an unwanted behaviour like chewing or thieving unless the dog is literally caught in the act. Doing so after the fact only convinces the dog their person is crazy and perhaps should not be trusted around a bucket.

I actually know Sumo is an opportunist thief. Lacking opposable thumbs, like any small child he explores the world with his mouth. He often will take empty mineral buckets for chew toys. He once nabbed and destroyed a spatula. His access to special or novelty items is usually restricted. I did do a sweep of the main barn this morning and moved several items I thought were in reach and possibly tempting. I just apparently didn’t think high enough.

The broom I think is salvageable. The bucket has a crack and is only kept and used for barn cleaning (and I’m fairly certain had a very dead mouse in it). No big losses today!

04/03/2024

Part 1 of 2. Storm thief.

When we’re about to have/are having the worst storm of the winter and your main concern is whether you can entice the ge...
03/03/2024

When we’re about to have/are having the worst storm of the winter and your main concern is whether you can entice the geriatric guardian to actually stay in a sheltered area.

The wind is blowing opposite its normal direction, so her usual spot is collecting snow. The straw filled stall in the barn she has access to, and was even bribed into eating breakfast in as a reminder it exists, goes unused because the sheep can’t go there too (and the goats were given extra space in the barn for the day). So you feed all the sheep in their little shed and entice the dog in with them using a fresh pile of straw. Note: she had left the pile and was out sitting in the pen again within 5 minutes.

03/02/2024

After a successful in-coop, off leash supervised visit I decided to leave Sumo “alone” with the chickens for a few minutes to see what he would do. Which was to act like he had been abandoned.

It’s very common the first few times you leave a young dog or puppy alone with new animals for them to sit at the gate or fence and wait for you to come get them - surely you left them there by accident. Right? You’ll be right back. Right?!

I do not want to jump immediately to leaving Sumo unsupervised. He’s not ready for that yet. I don’t trust him enough for that yet. The bales in the hay shed offered a lovely out of the wind spot for a few minutes observation. Sumo showed his discomfort in a number of doggy ways - staring, yawning, panting, etc. It’s important to note that while he was technically in the pen alone for these few minutes, most of it does not actually count as exposure time. His time at the fence and focused on me is, while not “bad”, not showing good interactions either. So it is neutral. If I had been timing him, I would have started the timer when he finally stood up and walked away - when he got bored enough to maybe go get himself in trouble, but didn’t. (Though he did have that moment looking into the coop where he likely startled a bird and thought about chasing it- the wagging tail - but decided against it all on his own. Perhaps because he’s so tall it’s a hassle to go in and out of the coop, but we will take the win anyway!)

Guest dog: Sadie the house dog, who was sure I was wasting my time sitting in the hay barn when we could be doing anything else. While the camera is focused usually on just one dog, often there is multiple dogs getting feedback behind the camera. Here I was trying to get her to practice the standing to laying down motion, which is smoother than the sit to laying down motion. Sadie is the unfortunate recipient of an online training course Dana is working through this year.

28/01/2024

There are good parts and bad parts about trying to train guardian dogs and puppies in the winter. On the one hand, the livestock are often in smaller pens and close to the house so it’s easier to get focused exposure time where the dog can quickly be tempted to get in trouble (and be redirected) or show they have it figured out. It’s easier to leave the dog or pup out for short periods and run and check on them.

The flip side is we are all busy with work and snow removal, and exposure time usually means we are working in the dark and out in the cold. When you get to the point of supervising from outside the pen but still needing to be present for longer periods, it gets almost painfully cold. — if it’s never occurred to you, remember one winter training hack is to park your vehicle next to the pen so you can sit in it and/or turn the heat on if needed.

With this break in the extreme cold Dana was working with Sumo in the chickens for the first time in weeks. That’s okay. This time of year we don’t need anybody in with the birds. It is still good bonding time for person and dog, and a good time to focus on the basics for cues like “leave it”. It does make it easier to work on close proximity exposure and respecting the birds food.

And yes, we do have too many roosters (anyone want to eat one?), and yes, the bleeding chicken shown is now having some “me time” in the barn.

In other news, we’ve been thinking of changing Sumo’s name. The other young dog in training right now is Enzo and we’re finding the closeness in names is causing lots of confusion for both dogs. Any name ideas? Preferably not ending in the letter ‘o’. Not Samson.

Can you say puppies?!It’s been over a year since our last litter. We are now quickly waiting for some Vito and Arwyn pup...
25/01/2024

Can you say puppies?!

It’s been over a year since our last litter. We are now quickly waiting for some Vito and Arwyn puppies that we expect to arrive mid March 2024.

If you would like to be on our waitist for a guardian pup, let us know! We have started accepting deposits for this litter and some are already spoken for.

More info can be found on our website: mountainmistmaremmas.com

Also enjoy some bonus pictures of some of our other dogs.

16/12/2023

This post is at least a month overdue, but it’s been a little challenging this fall with some family health concerns, Cisco leaving us, and some weird weather choices.

In October, 6 month old Sumo from Switchback Ranch joined our team. As part of their recent cross country move from BC to Quebec, they were able to meet Blaine in southern Manitoba for the handoff. Being a growing puppy and being on the limited food that comes with car trips the poor fellow was ravenous the first several days. Sumo is both touch and food motivated so it was extremely easy to make friends with this gentle giant. I say giant because even at six months old Sumo was taller than all our other dogs, and now at closer to 8 months there is a clear height difference of several inches when he stands next to the other dogs. His size means it’s very important to remind ourselves he is a puppy still and needs the grace and care all puppies deserve. Like not giving him a bone to chew on to keep his teeth clean when all the other dogs get one, because he was actively teething and those particular teeth were still coming in!

Sumo spent some time alone, then on supervised visits, then day visits, and is now 24/7 with the goats, still with supervised time with the sheep and chickens. It took him several weeks to really settle in and stop being very cautious around the new animals, which is normal for his age. He’s now figured out the daily schedule and what is normal for us and seems quite content. During the day he often has Enzo with him to help use up that puppy energy.

Sumo may become part of our breeding team in the future as a partner for Sky. So far he shows great personality and promise, so we look forward to seeing how he develops.

This video is one of the first times Sumo (the taller and slightly scruffier one at 7 months) and Enzo (longer, sleeker looking hair/tail at 11 months) were allowed to play together. We waited until everyone was friends through the fence and able to walk calmly by each other on leash before allowing free access.

Play in this age group of dog often looks rough. They are able to knock each other down, bite and grab. They often go until they are exhausted and can’t breath, which means panting open mouths and dripping saliva everywhere (so when you pet them prepare for some slime!). It’s very easy for one dog to start to overpower the other and take over the game. If both dogs are not having fun, this can quickly turn into a bullying issue and one dog might start using their teeth for real to try to ask for the space they need, which could then lead to a dog fight. In this case the camera didn’t make an appearance until almost an hour of play had gone by so Dana could be properly attentive and ensure everyone was having fun.

(Some) Rules of good dog play:

Play should be 50/50. Both dogs should have an equal amount of fun, an equal amount of being the chaser or being chased, of being upside down on the ground or being on top in a scuffle. If you are worried one dog is getting to be too much, separate the dog you think is the instigator/bully - the second dog has the choice of moving away (they want a break) or will rush over to their friend to find out why they stopped playing (having fun). This is something you can see when I ask for Enzo to have a calm moment with me and Sumo shows up with us just seconds later.

Play is bouncy. Lots of bent elbows, extra movements, and hip action (literally hip checking each other).

Play involves a lot of open mouths and any mouthing is usually a quick grab and let go. Additionally, they might go for an out of the way body area when trying to make their friend play - notice how Enzo keeps nibbling on Sumo’s hip when he is taking a break, trying to make him get up and chase. Sumo almost makes a tail grab at the end when they are both laying in the snow- his favourite place to grab when chasing Enzo.

Play can be either noisy or quiet, depending on the dog. These two happen to play quietly. Noisy play often sounds like two siblings whining at each other on a road trip (he’s touching me!) if you are familiar with your dogs normal sounds. This is generally more common in dogs that grew up together such as siblings. In play, if someone yelps in pain, the play pauses or stops altogether.

Play should be interruptible. At the time of this video the novelty of having a new playmate and the fact that Sumo did not have a solid “leave it” cue yet made it more difficult to get the dogs attention despite them being tired. You’ll notice I switch from trying to get Sumo’s attention to instead giving cues to Enzo, who is older, more familiar with me, and has more solid response to his cues - a greater chance for success than uselessly calling Sumo.

Play should have natural breaks to rest, smell things, or drink water. Although on video they are choosing to eat snow, they had been up to the water trough to drink together multiple times already. Including both of them (!) choosing to stick their feet in the trough to help cool off, despite the cooler weather. I’m glad it’s been so mild this winter so there were no frozen paw pads later. I like to give verbal praise and pets during these natural pauses to help the dogs realize this is desired behaviour, and also increase the chances that if I do try to interrupt them they will listen on the off chance their might be food involved!

Two new dogs, even when playing well, should not be given complete open access to each other once introduced. For about a week we only let them play together for a set time then separated them again. Making sure no one was overdone, and helping them learn to settle after play.

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