31/07/2023
Re-share for others to read and understand as it’s applicable to all (written by an American breeder) :-
Copied from Nate Harves. Great breeder. This is a great read.
There's a discussion going online about puppy prices, and the person driving it is complaining that anyone charging $2500 for a puppy is basically being greedy and taking advantage of people because "they know what gas costs to training and it doesn't cost that much." It made me giggle, because the person used to message me asking pedigree and breeding advice multiple times a week. One could argue that the reason I charge $2,000-2,500 is because I wasn't having to contact people multiple times a week asking for breeding advice. In fact, I don't do it ever. Because I actually know what I'm doing and don't run FB polls to vote the path we'll take as a kennel.
This person was happy they imported a puppy from Europe, and with puppy and shipping, do you know what it cost? Between $2,000-2,500. But it's from Europe and must be better, right? No. There are good and bad breeders in Europe, too. And do you think the Europeans say, "wow. This is a very nice puppy. We should send it to the Americans!"? No. They do not.
The Americans for the most part truly are idiots when it comes to breeding. They run to podium dogs blindly, they buy washout females just to brag they're imported, they understand next to nothing about genetics or pedigrees, they base 99.99% of their decisions on scorebook and points and which stud is closer or cheaper and a popularity contest environment that corrupts from the top down. You see their names bragging on puppies they kept out of flavor of the month breedings and how great they'll be, and then you see them wash out for sale 3 months later. You see the "famous" stud dogs stop being used as soon as they're not competing because they're no longer the magazine dog that will push the poorly bred puppies out of the poorly bred bitch that was taken to that stud owner that bred every uterus with a stud fee, indiscriminately. They're usually then sold off to a lower tier puppy mill who tries to get some more mileage out of the myth. And the system itself is faulty. People that should know better, don't. I've seen Judges, Regional Directors, Breeding Wardens, EB members, WUSV members, etc, knowingly breed dogs that have disqualifying things like missing teeth, bad hips, EPI, needed back surgeries, multiple root canals, history of bloat, refused to naturally cover a female, etc. So believe me, I'm not really knocking the Europeans. They're smart enough not to waste their gold on America unless they personally know you or it gets big money. If you think that generally speaking they'll bump a European handler to send the good one to an American they've never met, well, good luck. I'm reminded of sitting in a Schutzhund clubhouse in Germany with friends when another American was there and thanked them for sending him "their best puppy of the litter." It was after training, and the beer had been flowing, and their filters were turned off. They roared laughing and said the reason why that puppy was sent was "he was a tiny, weak puppy who got sick a lot and came into the clubhouse and peed on the floor because he was so scared." The man's face went flat. I couldn't help but laugh, myself.
To the Americans, they think if you pay someone to design a picture with laser beams and lightning coming from the dog's eyes while biting nuclear mushroom clouds, that you are now a breeder. That if you take your CGC female to whoever just won the Nationals, that you are now a breeder. That if you stand close to the right person, you are now a breeder. It's not so.
Are some people charging too much? Absolutely. I see people talking on lists and bragging their dogs up that I know personally. And knowing the reality and seeing the print is often hilarious. Those people have no business breeding. None. But it's a free country, someone has to fill the shelters and drive up the market cost. Others play the part of the breed savior but really care less. I'm reminded of a stud fee I declined because the female had bad hips. I told a high ranking person this, and they then opted to breed the female knowing she was fully dysplastic. When I questioned them, the response turned my blood cold- "Someone's gonna take their money, bud. Might as well be you." Needless to say, that person is no longer in my circle. Hell, over the years, hardly anyone is in my circle I associate with now. I've become severely jaded at the things I've seen and know.
But what it comes down to is, if someone is doing the right thing, who cares what they charge? I know everyone wants to blame the breeder, but the ego puppy millers and idiot buyers are the ones damaging the market. It makes it more costly for the real breeders to exist. Quality will always cost more than s**t. Does a price tag alone denote quality? No. But does quality cost more? Yes.
My litter prices have gone up over the years. So have car prices. So have home prices. So has a gallon of milk. But the internet and social media is as bad for the dogs as it is good. Idiots flood the market buying dogs, who are taken advantage of by the "someone's gonna take their money" types. In turn, this causes inflation. The dog that used to be lower priced, got higher than deserved money. Therefore, why would they let their higher quality dogs go for the same? They won't. Their prices adjust for the inflation, too. You have "point minded" breeding making it harder to find what I refer to as the river dogs, because they're not being produced in the same numbers. Then when they are, if a normal dog is fetching $X, what's a great dog fetch? Market costs are affected.
I have within my kennel ten breeding dogs. Three are imported from Europe, and seven are from my program and bear my kennel name. I have an additional dog we bred that we're training for a local police department. We also retain all of our retired breedings dogs on top of the ones we are titling and breeding. There are many people out there breeding untitled dogs. Whichever way you look at it, whether buying titled dogs to introduce new blood so you don't genetically bottleneck, or producing quality yourself and raising them from puppies into titled dogs, that has cost. Would it be easier to instead of working your ass off on your program, just hang out on training lists and breed untitled dogs that "are just as good" they say, and then sell them for only $1500, like so many of you do? It sure would be. But knowing the dogs and truly identifying what they are and aren't and testing that in a broad training and titling system has extreme value to go with that cost. It's worth it. And it's the knowledge and objectivity so many programs lack when they shortcut this. As a breeder, I have been the handler or the helper on not only them, but their parents, and even their grandparents and great-grandparents. Some of you speak about a dog by what you read somewhere, whereas I speak from knowing them. That's a colossal difference. And how many have seven dogs in their program bearing their name? Let alone one? Look at some of the people talking breeding- how many of their own product do they retain? What does that say? And the number of people I know that move their retired dogs when they're done breeding is absurd. I never understood why that animal hadn't earned the right in your eyes to live out its days where it contributed and called home. Well, those dogs need housed. Spent time with. Groomed. Fed. Vetted. Cared for. And that has a cost. Would you feel good saving $500 on a puppy knowing that after the mother whelps the litter she's gonna be dropped off somewhere? Or would you feel better knowing your dog's mother lived her days being cared for and not abandoned to a puppy mill somewhere? Is that a cost you'd bear? I have a property that costs me $1,500 a month, for my dogs. We spend roughly $650+ a month on dog food alone, not counting the supplemental chicken quarters and salmon oils and all the rest that adds up. I don't even wanna add up how many thousands of dollars in vet bills and care/maintenance. Then there's the driving to club 3 days a week to train. The gas. The leaving cars running for 6-8 hours for A/C when it's too hot. Travel training. Hotels. Kennels. Crates. Entry fees. Trials. Judges. Airfare. Per diem's. Equipment. Dog trailers. Puppies donated to youth handlers. But that's just money. How about time? How about 20+ years of whenever everyone else was on vacation, I was traveling to train? Or whenever anyone else was going to a movie, I was saving money for a new harness or e-collar? Or when everyone else was doing whatever, I was studying pedigrees and talking to old breeders and reading books and working dogs and watching videos and literally thirsting for every drop of knowledge I could swallow? Is that worth anything? How about the injuries? Broken bones, torn muscles, sprains, scrapes, bruises, hospitalization, stitches, etc? Was that for free? Or worthless? To have a breeder that's been in the trenches working these animals for over half their life? Does that have value? Or how about the rescue dogs that some of you bred, and got your $1500 on but wouldn't take the animal back so it came here, to be fed and provided for until I could find it the home you should've. I guess they're worthless, and not worth the cost to you as their breeder.
The problem is many think "that dog is just like that dog" and other nonsense. They aren't. And it takes a lot of work to find the ones that make it work. Everyone can do whatever they want to do, but most have no right to then question other's intentions or demand to check their pockets. Believe me, if you think people doing it right are getting rich, I assure you I for one, am not. I have seen times not so long ago where the choices were made "Groceries for me? Or more dog food?" The dogs win in those instances. The people I see actually profiting are the ones cutting the corners, breeding whatever to whatever, a litter every month, untitled dogs, people knowing next to nothing, but are pimping on all the lists the cheaper puppies. I've bred some great dogs, and I've bred some s**t dogs. But I've succeeded way more than I failed, and always felt if I was making money, I was doing it wrong. There's a lot more that goes on behind the curtains than many see. And quality has a price just to sustain and continue. It's one thing, if you're "the breeder" with one single female taken to an outside male once a year. That's not so costly. But when you have an entire kennel full of dogs of varying bloodlines you've been constructing over 20+ years that are just now coming together in the plan you had then, and are the seeds you're planting for the next 20+ years, that's a little different kind of breeding and comes with substantially different costs. I have a dog in my kennel that goes back generations of work. I worked her great-grandfather as he became a legend. I raised her grandfather from a puppy to a legend. We raised and titled the dogs in between and added what was needed along the path by design of the plan. Her mother is here. Her grandmother is here. Her father is here. Yesterday, we threw her on a man in a bitesuit and smiled seeing generations of work succeed. And when I look into her, I see all the faces inside her that I knew so well. They're all in there. Living. Continuing on. I see them, there. And that makes the cost along the way worth it. That is reward of generations of work. And that is invaluable, and lightyears from what some are capable of understanding or appreciating.
If you wanna gamble on that $1200 puppy out of untitled dogs with the person whose hands are on a keyboard more than they are on a leash or in a sleeve, have at it. Hell, odds are, they asked me about advice on that pedigree before they spoke to you.
End of rant.
